Could this be THE audio lovers Android handset? Your gateway device to the world of hard audio? (apologies in advance for your wallet) |
I hope you guys don't mind hearing about my little hobby horse once again, but I have some news that I thought I'd share with you in relation to the back-and-forth saga of USB audio and the Galaxy S III.
If you want to know whether the S III can really be a portable player to satisfy the more demanding audio fans out there, then you'd better read on just over the break...
So, USB audio and Android. A personal bug bear ever since it came to light that it wouldn't be supported by the stock Android implementation of USB host in Ice Cream Sandwich (V4.0 of the Android operating system, and the first with native support for this in phones).
Don't believe all the promises of operating systems coming with promises of delicious candy, they might not be what you expected before you accepted that ride |
On the morning of the Galaxy S III announcement Supercurio fanned the flames of this hope when he ellucidated the existence of Samsung USB audio drivers in the Galaxy S III, although he could not confirm whether they were working out of the box at that time. In my own hands-on with a pre-retail S III two weeks before its eventual release one of my priorities was to test my E17 USB DAC with the S III. Sadly at that time audio was not diverted to USB, and instead blared out of the phones loudspeakers, illustrating that it was not recognising an output via the USB port. Hope died a little, although as they say "hope dies last", so I still maintained a slender thread of optimism that things might change by the time of retail release.
Well, that time arrived, and the time came to test USB audio another time. Sadly it still didn't work, although something had clearly changed between pre-retail and retail software, as audio no longer emanated from the loudspeakers and the phone recognised a line out was connected. I was about ready to throw in the towel at that stage, but fortunately I kept my fingers on the pulse of the "sound quality" thread at XDA-developers and noted that a user there called ma10 had success connecting the S III to a Topping TP30 USB DAC (which he later documented on video for the inevitable naysayers). While this was a great proof of concept, it wasn't really what I was looking for, given the Topping unit isn't exactly pocketable.
The FiiO E7, a very well regarded portable DAC and headphone amp, catch some reviews here, here and here |
Well, my E7, and USB audio moment of truth, arrived this afternoon...
...and I am extremely happy to report that it works with Samsung's latest flagship!
(I realise that without video this never happened, so will be posting up the first of our trademark connectivity demo's on the blogs YouTube channel later on for people lack the good judgement to just trust AndroidNZ)
Obviously what we don't know at this stage is how broad support for USB DACs is at the present time, we have confirmation it works with a couple of devices, but I'm also aware of a couple of examples of failures like my E17. If you can add to the compatibility picture please drop us a line in the comments below and we'll keep this piece updated with a running list of compatible devices (a buyers guide if you will). But for now we can at least forward one recommendation for a portable solution in FiiO's E7.
Right at this moment there is nothing I'd rather do than soak up some excellent sound out of my Galaxy S III via the FiiO E7 for a few hours, but you lot are slave drivers, and I realise that you want part two of our review, so I shall get on with that instead...
SGS3 interworks with a noname C-Media chipset-based USB sound stick:
ReplyDeletehttp://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=26898236&postcount=177
"I just tested one of those cheap PC usb audio sticks with a c-media chipset and it works fine with the SGS3 too. Here's the dmesg output when I plug it in:
http://pastebin.com/nHmTRUN6"
At this point of time do we know why E17 is not compatible with S3 ??
ReplyDeleteNot yet, no. I have some contact with a FiiO representative at Head-Fi, perhaps I'll ask him (and while I'm at it see whether a firmware upgrade for the E17 could fix things...).
DeleteHey, so umm.. Any more info now about the E17 in conjunction with the Galaxy S III or anything about possible plans/fixes for it remains presently unknown?
DeleteI hate the fact that it's so huge but this phone and Android finally fit me so well that it's hard to resist. If a phone with all this functionality comes in a smaller size, that would be the perfect phone! TBH, this phone, or rather tablet I should say, is still is a deterrent if there's anything coming in the future. They just seem to be getting bigger and bigger though...
I emailed FiiO support about this and they've basically said that the amp in the E17 will work with the S3 but the DAC wont and that there are no plans to update the firmware to fix the problem. Lame. :(
DeleteNice work NZTF - glad you've had partial success at least. Alas I tried with my battery powered Total Bithead USB DAC/headphone amp and my S3 just now with no joy.
ReplyDelete:(
DeleteAlthough from XDA we're waiting on you to get a USB OTG cable before we write this one off?
Yes twas an embarrassing and abject testing methodology failure due to use of non-otg host compliant cables! Will try again once I have the correct cable.
DeleteYou're far from the first person to do that though, don't sweat it. Look forward to your next test!
DeleteI've got a Total Bithead USB DAC/headphone amp and can confirm that with the correct cabling, it does work with the Galaxy S3. Here's the cable I'm using -
Deletehttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150819309206?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Thanks for the report!
DeleteYep ditto - my USB otg adapter has _finally_ arrived and S3 plays nicely with the Bithead both in the latter's battery powered mode and its fully USB powered mode, though the battery definitely drains quickly on the latter. http://bit.ly/NDVWiG
DeleteIf I use an USB DAC does it still matter what media player(say winamp) and eq i use on the phone?
ReplyDeleteGood question, have yet to try that... The E7 does have some EQ settings too of course...
DeleteIt would still be interesting to know. Have you tried it yet?
DeleteHi I Have Works Notice able Change In Audio Quality However The E7'S Bass Boost Sort Of Drowns It Out If Its On 3
DeleteDoes FiiO E7 USB Audio work on the Galaxy Note running stock ICS ?
ReplyDeleteVery good question!
DeleteI will answer this for you tonight!
Hi there, just tested with the Note, sadly not working...
Deletethanks for trying
DeleteNo problem, happy to try it out for you and to satisfy my own curiosity. The personal touch is part of AndroidNZ's charm!
DeleteJust to clarify, is this taking a digital out from the S3 and using the DAC in the E7.? I have the E7 and looking to buy An S3 I i can upgrade my phone so this will be awesome as im only using with lineout on my mp3 player
ReplyDeleteYes, using the E7 DAC.
DeleteExcellent, yet another reason to get the S3 :D
DeleteIndeed! Going to be some very interesting stuff on S3 audio from Supercurio any time now though, sounds like with Voodoo we might even have better output than from an E17 according to his tests!
DeleteWhat type of connector are you using...I own a s3 and a e7...my headest jack on s3 has taken a dump so I'm looking for alternative.
DeleteWow sounds promising! That would be remarkable if even a Supercurio-tweaked S3 DAC could best a dedicated DAC/headphone amp such as the E17, as _surely_ the hardware analogue stage/op amps in the latter would comfortably best the S3 DAC's equivalent. Would be delighted to be proved wrong of course. Let's hope his SNR and THD measurements translate into a subjectively terrific sounding S3.
ReplyDeleteSamsung Galaxy S III interworks with USB DAC/amp/speakers Microsoft Digital Sound System 80:
ReplyDeletehttp://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1703218
Samsung Galaxy S III interworks with USB DAC/amp/headphone Corsair HS1 Gaming headset:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=27238117#post27238117
Thanks for info!
DeleteSamsung Galaxy S III interworks with USB DAC AMB Labs Gamma2:
ReplyDeletehttp://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=27247705&postcount=279
Cheers!
DeleteI'm missing something here. What is the sound quality advantage of the USB output against the standard headphone jack? For example is it really any better than using headphone to a FiiO E5 (or FiiO E7 which I assume has a headphone in as well, or any other similar amp?
ReplyDeleteThe E7 has it's own DAC which it uses instead of the S IIIs own Wolfson, sound quality is improved.
Delete*its
DeleteHave you found that audio with the E7 drains the phone battery really quickly even with the usb power option turned off? I can barely get 6 hours running with my E7.
ReplyDeleteFound it fine providing charging over USB is turned off.
DeleteI have.
DeleteI definately have USB charge turned off on the E7 but it still drains my S3 in about 6 hours. Listening to music through the jack (no E7) lasts much, much longer. Shame my headphones are so difficult to drive.
I have.
DeleteI definately have USB charge turned off on the E7 but it still drains my S3 in about 6 hours. Listening to music through the jack (no E7) lasts much, much longer. Shame my headphones are so difficult to drive.
my question is general how to see in Android OS that is supports USB Audio?
ReplyDeleteis there any extra option in Sound settings etc?
No, Samsung specifically added support for it, this is not (yet) an Android OS feature.
DeleteA bit of a leftfield suggestion re your FIIO E17, in case you've not tried this - an ipad user failed to get the E17 to work connected directly by USB to the ipad, but succeeded after interposing a USB hub and a USB battery power supply in between the two. His theory (borne out by the working solution) was that the E17 draws a significant current even when its USB recharge is set to off. By extension it may be that S3's problem is not firmware/USB protocol incompatibility with the E17, merely too great power draw by the E17. Your second S3's partial recognition of the E17 USB connection would seem to support this. Link here: http://bit.ly/N72of7
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm aware of that, tried with my powered USB hub no go unfortunately.
DeleteCan you link to the USB OTG cable you've been using in your videos?
ReplyDeleteThanks!
Got mine here:
Deletehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-USB-OTG-Host-cable-4-Samsung-Galaxy-S2-I9100-SII-/251081031162?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item3a75987dfa
Cheers from Seattle, NZtechfreak. Is your part II of this review on the horizon? I've been checking daily for it :^)
ReplyDeleteGreat Android blog BTW... it beats any of them here in the States IMHO.
Hi Guy!
DeleteSorry about the delay in the second review part, sadly this is not my fulltime job so it has to play second fiddle to other things and the last few weeks have been hectic - fingers crossed should complete it today (~7,500 words so far).
Just got a Topping D1 Mk2 USB DAC and it works beautifully with my GS3. Sound is significantly better than the on-board audio.
ReplyDeleteNiiiice! Thanks for the information, looks like a nice piece of kit. Doesn't seem to have an internal battery though, having only had a quick look for it now? Let us know how the battery holds up with that.
DeleteDoes it work with Fiio's E10?
ReplyDeleteI believe that it doesn't, although I've not personally confirmed this.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThe deck in my car has a USB port on the front of it, and my old phone (a Samsung SGH-T404G)just plugged in and played my mp3's after changing the setting to USB mass storage device which ICS doesn't seem to have as an option. My question is this, will a USB OTG cable be all I need to play my mp3's through my car stereo, and if not what else will I need? Also, will my phone still charge using a USB OTG cable?
ReplyDeleteList is already compiled. Android phones and USB DACs
ReplyDeleteI've been Wanting To use this option to play FLAC via car audio... yes using an aux cable, but the external DAC would let me bypass, and run straight to amplifier.
ReplyDeleteBut then, i thought of something else... mhl to hdmi to dac... which would allow charging at the same time.
Have you investigated that Approach at all?
If not, can one charge the SGS3 While outputting usb audio? Does it effect the sound?
Thanks
Hi could you inform us whether phone call sound go through the usb dac?
ReplyDeleteI emailed FiiO support about tprice E17 compatability with the S3 and got the response that the amp should work, but the DAC won't so would be relying on the phones internal DAC. Seems to defeat the point really if this is what it's to be used for as the E11 will do the same job as just an amp for half the price. I asked if a firmware update would resolve this in the future so the E17 DAC was being used but am still waiting for a response.
ReplyDeleteI also send an e-mail to market@fiio.com.cn with the same questions.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it helps when they get more mail regarding this issue.
In some US-movies they say "Try harder".
A good reply to their official statement:
"Taking about E17 connect with Samsung Galaxy S3 , the E17 shows lock at 16bit 48kHz, but there is no sound output with USB charge "on" or "off" ,as its working power is different from E7, we are sorry we now haven’t figured out a way to make them connect together become possible. Maybe you can pay attention to our following products, maybe E18 can, I’m sure someday you will find a product which can meet your needs, thanks."
Hi, I'd like to ask if the Galaxy Note 2 (which apparently uses many similar internals to the S3) would work with the Fiio E6, as I've just ordered it! Couldn't find a straight answer elsewhere, so would really appreciate a response!I'll be using it with the OTG feature of course linked to a Denon AH-D1100. Sounds feasible?
ReplyDeleteI am very sad to hear that the SG3's USB will not transport sound to the FIio E17 as I have just purchased both without a thought of combining them at the time...now I want too it wont work. Thanks for athe blog and all the comments so far
ReplyDeleteThe problem is not in the kernel, devices are detected correctly, but in format of output. When trying chrooted debian on s3, and there mplayer with -ao alsa:device=hw=1.0 -format s24le it works. But sounds from android have to use 16bit, so dacs supporting only 24bit cann't play... Don't know if there's any way to switch that behavior to 24bit default.
ReplyDeleteI have been trying to make Ipod and Iphone devices work with the Fiio E07 DAC/AMP. I also have the Galaxy S3 and am excited to attempt to make the E07 work via a USB OTG host cable . I believe that the E07 will work with the S3. I spoke to Apple today and they are not letting the digital audio signal out through either the 30 pin or Lighting connector. Naturally, it is not going to work with Apple and the E07 but I am determined to try this pairing anyway.
ReplyDeleteI tried - just for fun - connecting a Note 2 (GT-7105) to a Zoom H1 (with FW 2.00) to via an OTG cable and, well, playback works.
ReplyDeleteUseful? Nah... the H1 mixes its mic or line-in into the output, so it could possibly work as a kind of oddball makeshift mixer.
hello.... why i cant connect usb to my galaxy s3. can you tell me whats a probelm
ReplyDeleteI am using a micro usb to mini usb cable to connect the E7 to the S3 and am getting no results. Is there something specific to the regular USB OTG cable that makes it work, or am I overlooking something elsewhere along the line.
ReplyDeleteGreat blog by the way!
Hey thanks for your feedback!
DeleteA USB OTG cable has a slightly different wiring that triggers host mode in the phone, a straight adapter cable won't work (you can modify a regular adapter one if you're a capable with soldering, if you are Google it and you'll easily find some guides about how to do it.
Thanks!
Delete